Comments on: Outside Foxborough – Is Michael Turner more LT or Richard Huntley? http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/outside-foxborough-is-michael-turner-more-lt-or-richard-huntley/ Where Every Day Is Patriots Day Thu, 02 Feb 2012 12:41:45 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Average Joe http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/outside-foxborough-is-michael-turner-more-lt-or-richard-huntley/comment-page-1/#comment-1161 Average Joe Thu, 13 Sep 2007 20:05:09 +0000 http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/outside-foxborough-is-michael-turner-more-lt-or-richard-huntley/#comment-1161 Thanks guys. Thanks guys.

]]> By: Brad http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/outside-foxborough-is-michael-turner-more-lt-or-richard-huntley/comment-page-1/#comment-1160 Brad Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:58:39 +0000 http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/outside-foxborough-is-michael-turner-more-lt-or-richard-huntley/#comment-1160 Thanks fellas. Good stuff, just a note for future reference to perhaps include the links in the pieces here for us newbies instead of making us go look for them. Keep up the good work. Thanks fellas. Good stuff, just a note for future reference to perhaps include the links in the pieces here for us newbies instead of making us go look for them.

Keep up the good work.

]]> By: TGT http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/outside-foxborough-is-michael-turner-more-lt-or-richard-huntley/comment-page-1/#comment-1158 TGT Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:40:04 +0000 http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/outside-foxborough-is-michael-turner-more-lt-or-richard-huntley/#comment-1158 hmm...I guess I should have written less. hmm…I guess I should have written less.

]]> By: TGT http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/outside-foxborough-is-michael-turner-more-lt-or-richard-huntley/comment-page-1/#comment-1157 TGT Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:39:11 +0000 http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/outside-foxborough-is-michael-turner-more-lt-or-richard-huntley/#comment-1157 I'm surprised there was no link to the definitions of DPAR and DVOA. They normally are linked in external articles by people from FO. Click my name to see the full descriptions. Simplified descriptions follow: A completely average player would have a DVOA of 0. DVOA (Defense Adjusted Value Over Average) is supposed to measure how well a player does in the opportunities he gets compared to the average of everyone in the league. If you're completely average for the league, you would have a DVOA of 0 by definition. A completely average player shouldn't have a DPAR of 0. DPAR (Defense Adjusted Points Above Replacement) is supposed to measure how much a certain player has contributed to scoring points over what a replacement player could have done. The more opportunities a player gets in game (Carries, passes thrown to, drop backs), the more opportunities they have to contribute to their team scoring points, and the higher (or in the case of horrible players, lower) their DPAR will be. DPAR is the sum of the result from each play compared to what a replacement player would have done, and how much more or less the play contributed to scoring points. DVOA is the average of the result from each play compared to the league-wide average result from similar plays. As for what conventional stats a RB with 0% DVOA would have, we can't know. The RB could have 0 to 400 carries. If those carries were all on 3rd and 1, then the RB would have very different stats than a RB that carried on 3rd and 25(15 yards on 3rd and 25 might be average, and 2 yards on 3rd and 1 might be average). It becomes even harder to predict stats because DVOA doesn't just pay attention to down and distance. Position on the field matters. Time on the clock matters. Score of the game matters. Strength of opponent's defense matters. These factors also aren't in their own vaccuum, 10 seconds left on the clock in a 17-10 game at the 40 yard line on 1st and 10 is much different than 10 seconds left on the clock in a 12-10 game at the 40 yard line. I’m surprised there was no link to the definitions of DPAR and DVOA. They normally are linked in external articles by people from FO. Click my name to see the full descriptions. Simplified descriptions follow:

A completely average player would have a DVOA of 0. DVOA (Defense Adjusted Value Over Average) is supposed to measure how well a player does in the opportunities he gets compared to the average of everyone in the league. If you’re completely average for the league, you would have a DVOA of 0 by definition.

A completely average player shouldn’t have a DPAR of 0. DPAR (Defense Adjusted Points Above Replacement) is supposed to measure how much a certain player has contributed to scoring points over what a replacement player could have done. The more opportunities a player gets in game (Carries, passes thrown to, drop backs), the more opportunities they have to contribute to their team scoring points, and the higher (or in the case of horrible players, lower) their DPAR will be.

DPAR is the sum of the result from each play compared to what a replacement player would have done, and how much more or less the play contributed to scoring points. DVOA is the average of the result from each play compared to the league-wide average result from similar plays.

As for what conventional stats a RB with 0% DVOA would have, we can’t know. The RB could have 0 to 400 carries. If those carries were all on 3rd and 1, then the RB would have very different stats than a RB that carried on 3rd and 25(15 yards on 3rd and 25 might be average, and 2 yards on 3rd and 1 might be average). It becomes even harder to predict stats because DVOA doesn’t just pay attention to down and distance. Position on the field matters. Time on the clock matters. Score of the game matters. Strength of opponent’s defense matters. These factors also aren’t in their own vaccuum, 10 seconds left on the clock in a 17-10 game at the 40 yard line on 1st and 10 is much different than 10 seconds left on the clock in a 12-10 game at the 40 yard line.

]]> By: Costa http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/outside-foxborough-is-michael-turner-more-lt-or-richard-huntley/comment-page-1/#comment-1156 Costa Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:36:14 +0000 http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/outside-foxborough-is-michael-turner-more-lt-or-richard-huntley/#comment-1156 DVOA and DPAR are both explained in a short, understandable while not too detailed way here: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/methods.php Essentially, DPAR is a defense adjusted way of counting how many offensive points a player contributes above a replacement player, where replacement player is any old guy you should be able to find and sign to a league minimum range contract. DVOA and DPAR are both explained in a short, understandable while not too detailed way here:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/methods.php

Essentially, DPAR is a defense adjusted way of counting how many offensive points a player contributes above a replacement player, where replacement player is any old guy you should be able to find and sign to a league minimum range contract.

]]> By: Scott de B. http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/outside-foxborough-is-michael-turner-more-lt-or-richard-huntley/comment-page-1/#comment-1155 Scott de B. Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:29:59 +0000 http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/outside-foxborough-is-michael-turner-more-lt-or-richard-huntley/#comment-1155 DPAR is defense-adjusted points above replacement, so an average back would indeed have a positive DPAR. But since DPAR is a counting stat, the exact number would depend on how much they played. DPAR is defense-adjusted points above replacement, so an average back would indeed have a positive DPAR. But since DPAR is a counting stat, the exact number would depend on how much they played.

]]> By: Bill B. http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/outside-foxborough-is-michael-turner-more-lt-or-richard-huntley/comment-page-1/#comment-1154 Bill B. Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:22:08 +0000 http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/outside-foxborough-is-michael-turner-more-lt-or-richard-huntley/#comment-1154 The thing is that DVOA is so dependent upon situation that it's really hard to say what the stats for a back would be over the course of a season, as backs are used in different situations. An estimate would be somewhere around 3.9 yards per carry. As for further explanations of DVOA and DPAR beyond what I described previously, I'd recommend reading our methods page at http://www.footballoutsiders.com/methods.php. The thing is that DVOA is so dependent upon situation that it’s really hard to say what the stats for a back would be over the course of a season, as backs are used in different situations. An estimate would be somewhere around 3.9 yards per carry.

As for further explanations of DVOA and DPAR beyond what I described previously, I’d recommend reading our methods page at http://www.footballoutsiders.com/methods.php.

]]> By: Brad http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/outside-foxborough-is-michael-turner-more-lt-or-richard-huntley/comment-page-1/#comment-1152 Brad Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:04:13 +0000 http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/outside-foxborough-is-michael-turner-more-lt-or-richard-huntley/#comment-1152 I was gonna ask the same thing as Average Joe. The definition of the terms DVOA and DPAR could be a little clearer for those of us that don't or haven't read FO at all. I'm assuming the average back would have a DVOA of 0%, but I'm not clear what the other stat means. I was gonna ask the same thing as Average Joe. The definition of the terms DVOA and DPAR could be a little clearer for those of us that don’t or haven’t read FO at all.

I’m assuming the average back would have a DVOA of 0%, but I’m not clear what the other stat means.

]]> By: Average Joe http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/outside-foxborough-is-michael-turner-more-lt-or-richard-huntley/comment-page-1/#comment-1151 Average Joe Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:06:18 +0000 http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/outside-foxborough-is-michael-turner-more-lt-or-richard-huntley/#comment-1151 Bill, for curiosities sake, what would the stats be for a pefectly average running back? Bill, for curiosities sake, what would the stats be for a pefectly average running back?

]]> By: anonymous http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/outside-foxborough-is-michael-turner-more-lt-or-richard-huntley/comment-page-1/#comment-1150 anonymous Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:03:41 +0000 http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/09/outside-foxborough-is-michael-turner-more-lt-or-richard-huntley/#comment-1150 It seems that you have put a lot of thought and analysis into your posts instead of knee jerk reactions. I find myself coming here everyday now to look for Patriots related news and analysis. It seems that you have put a lot of thought and analysis into your posts instead of knee jerk reactions. I find myself coming here everyday now to look for Patriots related news and analysis.

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