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	<title>Comments on: Safety in Numbers</title>
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	<link>http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/08/safety-in-numbers/</link>
	<description>Where Every Day Is Patriots Day</description>
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		<title>By: Discount New Shopping York</title>
		<link>http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/08/safety-in-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-1297</link>
		<dc:creator>Discount New Shopping York</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 05:16:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/08/safety-in-numbers/#comment-1297</guid>
		<description>Nice to finally meet you! - I\&#039;m not exactly sure what this has to do with Discount new shopping york (that\&#039;s what I was searching on MSN when I saw a link here), but I\&#039;m glad I got a chance to read your blog.  Thanks!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice to finally meet you! &#8211; I\&#8217;m not exactly sure what this has to do with Discount new shopping york (that\&#8217;s what I was searching on MSN when I saw a link here), but I\&#8217;m glad I got a chance to read your blog.  Thanks!!</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/08/safety-in-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-691</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 03:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/08/safety-in-numbers/#comment-691</guid>
		<description>And by the way, there absolutely positively was NOT any provision of the CBA about recouping a signing bonus at the time the Lions did it to Sanders. You simply made that up out of thing air. Please cite the chapter and subsection you are referring to. It didn&#039;t exist. You know it. I know it and so does everyone else. I realize its an inconvenient fact for your original claims and its not surprising you didn&#039;t address it (other than briefly making something up as your response)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And by the way, there absolutely positively was NOT any provision of the CBA about recouping a signing bonus at the time the Lions did it to Sanders. You simply made that up out of thing air. Please cite the chapter and subsection you are referring to. It didn&#8217;t exist. You know it. I know it and so does everyone else. I realize its an inconvenient fact for your original claims and its not surprising you didn&#8217;t address it (other than briefly making something up as your response)</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/08/safety-in-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-690</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 03:34:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/08/safety-in-numbers/#comment-690</guid>
		<description>Whatever, I&#039;m done with you. The CBA does not override the contract itself. Its almost too ridiculous to respond to. But you are beyond help. By the way, when you said &quot;my bad&quot; you followed it up with another claim that was wrong and not researched. A pattern for you. You simply don&#039;t have a clue, but you are right about one thing, its pointless to argue any further because you are arguing about an area you obviously have no background in and its two days old now. You couldn&#039;t even address the Sanders argument despite myself and another poster bringing it up. The tactics are familiar if the name is not. Move the goalposts, don&#039;t address the issues and pretend you know what you&#039;re talking about in an area you have obviously have zero background and expertise in. Its pointless. Have a nice day.

Greg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whatever, I&#8217;m done with you. The CBA does not override the contract itself. Its almost too ridiculous to respond to. But you are beyond help. By the way, when you said &#8220;my bad&#8221; you followed it up with another claim that was wrong and not researched. A pattern for you. You simply don&#8217;t have a clue, but you are right about one thing, its pointless to argue any further because you are arguing about an area you obviously have no background in and its two days old now. You couldn&#8217;t even address the Sanders argument despite myself and another poster bringing it up. The tactics are familiar if the name is not. Move the goalposts, don&#8217;t address the issues and pretend you know what you&#8217;re talking about in an area you have obviously have zero background and expertise in. Its pointless. Have a nice day.</p>
<p>Greg</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/08/safety-in-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-683</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/08/safety-in-numbers/#comment-683</guid>
		<description>Me too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Me too.</p>
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		<title>By: Box Score</title>
		<link>http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/08/safety-in-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-682</link>
		<dc:creator>Box Score</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:11:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/08/safety-in-numbers/#comment-682</guid>
		<description>I am just very disappointed that Dan opted not to go with the more traditional &quot;SAFETY DANCE&quot; headline.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am just very disappointed that Dan opted not to go with the more traditional &#8220;SAFETY DANCE&#8221; headline.</p>
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		<title>By: KnidsrOK</title>
		<link>http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/08/safety-in-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-676</link>
		<dc:creator>KnidsrOK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:32:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/08/safety-in-numbers/#comment-676</guid>
		<description>Regarding the team&#039;s option to recoup some of Branch&#039;s signing bonus if he held out:

It would hardly have been worth it.  Branch&#039;s signing bonus was a fraction over $1 million, and Branch had played out four years of his contract.  That Pats, at most, could have recovered ~$200,000.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the team&#8217;s option to recoup some of Branch&#8217;s signing bonus if he held out:</p>
<p>It would hardly have been worth it.  Branch&#8217;s signing bonus was a fraction over $1 million, and Branch had played out four years of his contract.  That Pats, at most, could have recovered ~$200,000.</p>
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		<title>By: KnidsrOK</title>
		<link>http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/08/safety-in-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-675</link>
		<dc:creator>KnidsrOK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/08/safety-in-numbers/#comment-675</guid>
		<description>Ok, this is the last bit of my time I waste on this topic.  It&#039;s obvious from your last response that you won&#039;t accept clear reported evidence that the CBA addresses the issue of holdouts, and provides guidelines for each party&#039;s recourses in their event.  

It&#039;s also clear that you don&#039;t quite understand what the very nature of what collective bargaining agreement is. Of &lt;i&gt;course&lt;/i&gt; a CBA overrides parts of federal contract law -- or rather, more accurately, it preempts them.  That&#039;s the whole point -- it establishes a legal structure entirely alien to the natural laws that govern labor.  The draft, the franchise tag, limits as to the lengths of rookie contracts, etc, all of these things are constructs of the CBA, in which both parties have given up certain legal rights to establish an agreement that is the first arbiter in all contractual disputes.

And this CBA clearly elucidates the various penalties a team is allowed to levy against players under contract who do not report.  (And yes, this does include guidelines for when a team can go to court to recoup a players&#039; signing bonus.)  A franchise can no more decide to bypass these procedures than a player can decide to sue the team to get out of the the franchise tag.  

So just come off it, Greg: you clearly were caught making stuff up about the Patriots&#039; getting a court order to compel Branch to report, and you&#039;re trying to cover it up with nothing but bluster and cheap rhetoric.  You keep asking me for proof of things, but have yourself provided zero evidence to back up your own wild claims.  

As for your hilarious attempt at condescension at the end of your post about my making progress -- please, go back to my very first response to your nitpicking about Warren&#039;s option bonus.  Read the first sentence.  It says &quot;My bad.&quot;  I readily admitted to lumping all the guaranteed money into  the signing bonus.  So clearly, between the two of us, I&#039;m not the one who has a problem admitting when he&#039;s made a mistake.  You, on the other hand, seem to think that if you come up with as many different ways to insist I&#039;m wrong as you can, eventually it will be true.

It won&#039;t.  You&#039;re wrong, I&#039;m right, and you haven&#039;t offered a single shred of evidence that suggests otherwise. 

But here&#039;s the thing -- I don&#039;t really care.  It&#039;s still entirely irrelevant to the point of my initial post, which is that Warren was extending a contract that would pay him $20 million to Branch&#039;s $3 million, and that this needs to be taken into consideration when we praise Warren for giving a &quot;hometown discount,&quot; and condemn Branch for being greedy.

Your entire farce about the Patriots blowing up the CBA to compel Branch to show up and play -- an idea so ridiculously impractical in execution that you should be embarrassed to have brought it up in the first place -- was nothing more than an attempt on your part to duck my point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, this is the last bit of my time I waste on this topic.  It&#8217;s obvious from your last response that you won&#8217;t accept clear reported evidence that the CBA addresses the issue of holdouts, and provides guidelines for each party&#8217;s recourses in their event.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s also clear that you don&#8217;t quite understand what the very nature of what collective bargaining agreement is. Of <i>course</i> a CBA overrides parts of federal contract law &#8212; or rather, more accurately, it preempts them.  That&#8217;s the whole point &#8212; it establishes a legal structure entirely alien to the natural laws that govern labor.  The draft, the franchise tag, limits as to the lengths of rookie contracts, etc, all of these things are constructs of the CBA, in which both parties have given up certain legal rights to establish an agreement that is the first arbiter in all contractual disputes.</p>
<p>And this CBA clearly elucidates the various penalties a team is allowed to levy against players under contract who do not report.  (And yes, this does include guidelines for when a team can go to court to recoup a players&#8217; signing bonus.)  A franchise can no more decide to bypass these procedures than a player can decide to sue the team to get out of the the franchise tag.  </p>
<p>So just come off it, Greg: you clearly were caught making stuff up about the Patriots&#8217; getting a court order to compel Branch to report, and you&#8217;re trying to cover it up with nothing but bluster and cheap rhetoric.  You keep asking me for proof of things, but have yourself provided zero evidence to back up your own wild claims.  </p>
<p>As for your hilarious attempt at condescension at the end of your post about my making progress &#8212; please, go back to my very first response to your nitpicking about Warren&#8217;s option bonus.  Read the first sentence.  It says &#8220;My bad.&#8221;  I readily admitted to lumping all the guaranteed money into  the signing bonus.  So clearly, between the two of us, I&#8217;m not the one who has a problem admitting when he&#8217;s made a mistake.  You, on the other hand, seem to think that if you come up with as many different ways to insist I&#8217;m wrong as you can, eventually it will be true.</p>
<p>It won&#8217;t.  You&#8217;re wrong, I&#8217;m right, and you haven&#8217;t offered a single shred of evidence that suggests otherwise. </p>
<p>But here&#8217;s the thing &#8212; I don&#8217;t really care.  It&#8217;s still entirely irrelevant to the point of my initial post, which is that Warren was extending a contract that would pay him $20 million to Branch&#8217;s $3 million, and that this needs to be taken into consideration when we praise Warren for giving a &#8220;hometown discount,&#8221; and condemn Branch for being greedy.</p>
<p>Your entire farce about the Patriots blowing up the CBA to compel Branch to show up and play &#8212; an idea so ridiculously impractical in execution that you should be embarrassed to have brought it up in the first place &#8212; was nothing more than an attempt on your part to duck my point.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/08/safety-in-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-661</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 03:44:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/08/safety-in-numbers/#comment-661</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think its granted rarely for any other reason other than its not often requested. Lets face facts, by the time something reaches the lawsuit stage, the relationship has deteriorated pretty badly. Doesn&#039;t mean a court won&#039;t order it if requested. And there are plenty of examples where that has occurred, its just that when someone files suit, more often than not at that point they want money. And perhaps the Pats or some other team could consider that angle against a holdout player as well. I see at least some possibility there as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think its granted rarely for any other reason other than its not often requested. Lets face facts, by the time something reaches the lawsuit stage, the relationship has deteriorated pretty badly. Doesn&#8217;t mean a court won&#8217;t order it if requested. And there are plenty of examples where that has occurred, its just that when someone files suit, more often than not at that point they want money. And perhaps the Pats or some other team could consider that angle against a holdout player as well. I see at least some possibility there as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Feejis</title>
		<link>http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/08/safety-in-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-660</link>
		<dc:creator>Feejis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 02:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/08/safety-in-numbers/#comment-660</guid>
		<description>Greg, I don&#039;t disagree that a team could attempt that lawsuit, but I don&#039;t see it working. As you know, specific performance is a rare award in contract situations.

It&#039;s possible, and there&#039;s an argument in terms of services Branch could provide being similar to an artist being commissioned for a painting that he/she refuses to do. Or a high powered lawyer being hired and then farming out work to an underling or associate when the client wanted THAT lawyer. Those kinds of situations in personal services can result in specific performance but it&#039;d be very rare I think.

Courts in general aren&#039;t particularly enamored with the idea of forcing people to work, or preventing people from working. It&#039;s why noncompete agreements are usually torn apart. I&#039;d like to see a team try to make the arguments, but I don&#039;t think it&#039;d fly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg, I don&#8217;t disagree that a team could attempt that lawsuit, but I don&#8217;t see it working. As you know, specific performance is a rare award in contract situations.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s possible, and there&#8217;s an argument in terms of services Branch could provide being similar to an artist being commissioned for a painting that he/she refuses to do. Or a high powered lawyer being hired and then farming out work to an underling or associate when the client wanted THAT lawyer. Those kinds of situations in personal services can result in specific performance but it&#8217;d be very rare I think.</p>
<p>Courts in general aren&#8217;t particularly enamored with the idea of forcing people to work, or preventing people from working. It&#8217;s why noncompete agreements are usually torn apart. I&#8217;d like to see a team try to make the arguments, but I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;d fly.</p>
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		<title>By: Boda</title>
		<link>http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/08/safety-in-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-658</link>
		<dc:creator>Boda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 23:58:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2007/08/safety-in-numbers/#comment-658</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t get the point of comparing Branch&#039;s Seattle deal and Warren&#039;s new deal with the Pats.  They are not comparable football players.  Warren is much, much better.  If anything, these two players could be used as examples of why contracts for first rounders are not &quot;ridiculous.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t get the point of comparing Branch&#8217;s Seattle deal and Warren&#8217;s new deal with the Pats.  They are not comparable football players.  Warren is much, much better.  If anything, these two players could be used as examples of why contracts for first rounders are not &#8220;ridiculous.&#8221;</p>
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